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Post subject:
 Posted: Jun 13, 2006 - 06:03 PM
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Site Admin
Joined: Mar 26, 2003
Posts: 1099
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Anonymous wrote:
during a workshop session on " Baptism of the Holy Spirit" , we were led into Praise , I found that I had been given a" New Tongue of Praise "  . It was different from the one I had experienced before i left my Prayer group in 1984. any insight would be welcomed,  thanks
See my note on Diverse Tongues under Different Kinds of Tongues (Part Two): The Journey: The Gift of the Spirit |
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Post subject:
Posted: May 31, 2008 - 08:19 AM
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Site Admin
Joined: Apr 07, 2003
Posts: 1488
Location: Mid -Iowa
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For the record, and FYI, there has been some research done on how praying in the Spirit (praying in tongues) affects the brain and nervous system.
Here is the URL to the PDF document that contains the results of the research: measurement of regional cerebral blood flow during glossolalia
There have been other research documents about the gift of tongues: both pro and con.
<OP ED>IMHO: all such research, while interesting, misses the point of praying in tongues. Praying in the Spirit is an act of faith. As an act of faith, the act starts in the will rather than in the mind.
It's interesting to know that the human brain responds to the activity of praying in the Spirit. However, I've seen similar reports of research done by practitioners of transcendental meditation. The results are somewhat similar to the findings of those who pray in tongues. There is a change in brain-wave patterns and various parts of the brain are stimulated and have increased blood-flow.
Does that mean that praying in tongues is similar to transcendental meditation? Not really: TM is a "mental activity" ; praying in tongues is a spiritual activity. The operational word for "tongues" is "praying".
The genesis of praying in tongues is from the Holy Spirit. On the other hand, the "mantra" for TM comes from a guru or mentor. In the former, you trust in the promises of the Lord and His Spirit. In the latter (TM) one puts human trust in another human being. The former has the result of sanctification: the latter has the result of, well, meditation.
Nuff for now. <OP END> |
_________________
.ed.
Last edited by EMKeefe on Jan 09, 2010 - 11:35 PM; edited 1 time in total
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Post subject:
Posted: Jan 27, 2009 - 08:32 AM
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Site Admin
Joined: Apr 07, 2003
Posts: 1488
Location: Mid -Iowa
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As a follow-on to this topic, let me mention that I just listened to an online broadcast by an unnamed priest who, as recently as a several weeks ago, repeated almost all the anti-charismatic arguments that have been set forth in the past forty years.
In particular, the priest told a story that has taken on the aura of an "urban legend of the charismatic kind".
It's a story that has been making the rounds for almost as long as I can remember. The story comes in different flavors but it's basically the same story over and over again. The teller of the tale begins with the information that he or she knows a woman who has an aunt who met a linguist who attended one charismatic prayer meeting at an unspecified location and heard someone speak in tongues. The hearer left the meeting because he happened to know the language being spoken and knew that the speaker was praising the devil (or cursing God--in anther versions of the myth) Of course, the legend MUST be true because it is so widespread. It MUST be that this same thing has happened over and over again because the "linguist" is sometimes a man, sometimes a woman, sometimes a distant relative, sometimes a college professor, sometimes a psychologist, sometimes a priest and even a member of the Roman Curia.
Left unmentioned are such details as the location, the date, the names, etc of the speaker in tongues and the hearer. Any rules of evidence are tossed out the window in the interest of telling a shocking "war story".
The simplest way to refute such a tale is, of course, to label it as an unsubstantiated rumor that has no credibility whatsoever.
A counter-argument would be to claim that you know someone who has a relative who speaks fluent medieval French. That relative went to a charismatic prayer meeting where a priest spoke in tongues and it was, guess what, medieval French that was spoken and the priest was reciting parts of Psalm 116. Don't use such a story unless you can support it with names, dates, places, etc.
The moral to the urban legend story is most often given as "satan can mimic the gift of tongues" ((I doubt that this is accurate. There's nothing in Scripture that says this can happen. There's noting in the documents of the Catholic church that says this either.) However, since the person speaking in tongues might be using a diabolical gift, he/she should never use this ability and should dissuade others from doing likewise.
I've used the counter-argument of asking the person who tells such a tale to open his wallet or purse, take out every piece of paper money and burn it all. Why? Because I have a hunch that one of the pieces of money might be counterfeit. Therefore ALL the bills MIGHT be counterfeit and you surely wouldn't want to be picked up carrying counterfeit money on you, now would you?!
After forty years of refuting such arguments, you'd think that rational people would get the message. Apparently that is not the case. Like gossip, urban legends continue to persist.
The simplest way to refute them is to insist on proof from the purveyor of the myth and then direct the person to chapter 11, verse 13, of Luke's Gospel. Therein Jesus himself promises that when you ask the Father for the Holy Spirit, that is exactly what you will get. You won't get a serpent or a fake gift. Trust God. He really is the Father who knows how to give the best gifts. The gifts are not for you. Use them to heal and build up others.
For now, peace, |
_________________
.ed.
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Post subject:
Posted: Jan 27, 2009 - 08:20 PM
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Site Admin
Joined: Mar 26, 2003
Posts: 1099
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Luke Chapter Eleven (NIV):
11 "Which of you fathers, if your son asks for a fish, will give him a snake instead? 12 Or if he asks for an egg, will give him a scorpion? 13 If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!" |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 02, 2009 - 08:30 AM
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Site Admin
Joined: Apr 07, 2003
Posts: 1488
Location: Mid -Iowa
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As a follow-on to my admonition, above, namely Don't use such a story unless you can support it with names, dates, places, etc. Here's such a story from a reputable Catholic charismatic blogger who also happens to be a lawyer (IIRC) Although the names and dates are not given, I get the impression. from the tone of the article, that they could be provided to a serious seeker. Tongues with interpretation
What's the old adage: "For the person with faith, no evidence is needed. For the person without faith, no evidence is good enough" (or something like that) |
_________________
.ed.
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Post subject: Pentecost Revisited by R. G. Brown
Posted: Jan 10, 2010 - 12:40 AM
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Site Admin
Joined: Apr 07, 2003
Posts: 1488
Location: Mid -Iowa
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Some of you may be aware that a major Pentecostal denomination, the Assemblies of God, has long held the belief that the baptism in the Holy Spirit is ALWAYS accompanied by the gift of speaking in tongues. According to the AoG "creed" unless you speak in tongues, you have not been baptized in the Spirit. If you do speak in tongues you defintely have been baptized in the Spirit.
In the Catholic charismatic renewal we don't share this belief. For those who have a bit of theology in their background, the Catholic charismatic belief about the significance of the gift of tongues could be stated as "speaking in tongues is sufficient, but not necessary, evidence of the baptism in the Holy Spirit. " Now comes a book called Pentecost Revisited by Robert Glenn Brown that agrees with the Catholic charismatic position on the gift of tongues. The most amazing thing is that R.G. Brown has been a minister in the Assemblies of God denomination for fifty years.
Somewhere, in his past, R.G. Brown began to question the AoG's official doctrine about the necessity of tongues as proof that a person had been baptized in the Spirit. Late in life, Pastor Brown wrote this book to "set the record straight".
Here is a link to the Web site where you can buy the book or at least read a preview of the book. SEE: http://pentecostrevisited.com/.
If you don't want to buy the book but would like to know more about the author's point of view, here's a link to a Web site that has a transcript of an interview with the author. I think the article covers the basic thesis of the author without going into all the details...and without the anecdotes that make the book interesting to read. SEE: http://cpbooks.christianpost.com/Q-A-with-Glenn-Brown-Author-of-Pentecost-Revisited/Robert-Glenn-Brown/30/
In short, the author, R.G. Brown contradicts the AoG doctrine of the necessity of the gift of tongues as proof. He then sets out to persuade others that the real reason for tongues is...get this... to overcome racial prejudice among people who want to be Christians.
In the book, R.G. Brown does apologetic battle with people who say that the charisms ended with the death of the apostles ("cessationists"). He also tries to show how the AoG doctrine on the gift of tongues has produced division when it was originally meant to produce unification.
Pastor Brown concludes with a statement about the "biblical proof" of one's having been baptized in the Holy Spirit.
The proof of one's baptism in the Holy Spirit is twofold: 1) the person is able to exercise one or more of the charisms AND (2) the person gives evidence of producing the "fruit of the Spirit " ( SEE: Galatians 5:22 ---love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness--
What can I say about the book? How about mirabile dictu? Will wonders never cease. R.G. Brown has come one-step closer to the Catholic charismatic point of view. Maybe some prayer can help him take the next step and accept the fullness of truth in the Catholic church.
Peace, |
_________________
.ed.
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Post subject: Mel Montgomery on the Gift of Tongues
Posted: Apr 22, 2010 - 11:18 AM
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Site Admin
Joined: Apr 07, 2003
Posts: 1488
Location: Mid -Iowa
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