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Post subject: Gift of Speaking/Praying in Tongues
 Posted: Jun 05, 2004 - 06:24 AM
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Site Admin
Joined: Apr 07, 2003
Posts: 1489
Location: Mid -Iowa
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Hello, All,
This thread is intended as an open-ended discussion of the phenomenon known as speaking in tongues and/or praying in tongues. Sometimes the practice is called "praying in the Spirit".
But, whatever the name used, this aspect of the charismatic renewal has been the target of a lot of controversy. There's an old saying that goes, "First impressions are lasting impressions."
Many people, over the years have had a bad first impression of the CCR...and may have had that first impression confirmed again and again. After 35+ years as a charismatic Catholic and after as many years emailing on the Net and the Web, I've heard all the horror stories that are out there. Some of them have taken on the characteristic of urban legends!
We realize that it is highly improbable that anything we say, here, will change a negative first impression.
However, if you're here, looking for a way for you to change your first impression of the charismatic renewal, consider that the Holy Spirit may already be at work in you.
It's your decision if you want Him to change your attitudes and your heart. Please pray about that before posting.
The controversy started when the first Pentecostals started praying in tongues back in the early 1900's and became even more controversial when the "charismatic renewal" began in the mainline churches in the 1960's.
Personally Speaking
Speaking in tongues was, for me, one of the most troubling elements of the Catholic Pentecostal movement, 35 years ago.
I didn't have any theological or scriptural qualms about people speaking in tongues. For me, the problem with praying in tongues was that I didn't understand it. I thought the Holy Spirit would use my vocal apparatus like a hand in a hand-puppet.
I didn't understand what speaking in tongues was meant to be a cooperative form of non-rational prayer. My complaint to those who spoke or prayed in tongues was something like: You claim you pray in tongues! So what?!
Also, I had cultural hang-ups. Tongues brought to mind the stereotype of a Pentecostal worship service...You know: the "holy roller" image that a lot of us old timers can recall. I didn't want the cultural baggage that I THOUGHT came with the ability to speak in tongues. That would be embarrassing.
And so I prayed conditionally, "Lord, you can baptize me in your Spirit and give me the gift of prophecy, but don't give me the silliest of gifts, speaking in tongues. Is that OK, Lord? Are we in agreement? Huh?"
To make a long story short, I stopped praying conditionally, started praying in faith, asking for an encounter with the Lord and told Him He could do with me whatever He thought best.
I encountered the Lord, I experienced the Holy Spirit alive within me. I began to cooperate with the person within and began to speak in tongues.
For more details, and to make a short story long, see the first part of my testimony on my web site linked below.
Some Background Reflections
The gift of tongues is the only manifestation of the Holy Spirit that does not have an Old Testament counterpart. This manifestation is unique to the New Testament. There were people of faith in the OT who worked miracles, cured people, prophesied, had words of knowledge and wisdom, etc. No one...not even the ass of Balaam spoke in an unknown tongue. You can read far and wide in the Old Testament and you may find some instances where people are "prophesying" or where people in Babel have lost the ability to communicate. HOWEVER, you won't find anything in the OT to equal, or come close to what happened on the first Pentecost after Easter. You won't find anything like what happened in the home of Cornelius.
Likewise, there may have been other cults or religions that practiced some form of speaking in strange sounds. There's no evidence that any one of the Chosen People of God ever spoke in tongues.
In the New Testament, the phenomenon of speaking in tongues is ALWAYS associated with the Holy Spirit and/or initiation into the Church through baptism. There's no evidence that people who practiced praying in the Spirit associated this gift with the devil.
There is strong evidence that speaking in tongues was acceptable in the early church. Some would say that it was expected behavior. I personally don't see a lot of evidence for that viewpoint, however.
Sometime during the second century, the gift of speaking in tongues fell out of favor. Who knows why?
St. Augustine, in the 4th century, speaks of "jubilation" which is what some think is the same as praying or singing in tongues.
There are also stories that the craftsmen who built the cathedrals in the middle ages sang in tongues while working.
The phenonon of speaking in tongues is an on-again, off-again thing in the history of the Church. Sometimes the practice has been tolerated, sometimes it has been denigrated and even thought of as a sign of diabolical possession. Sometimes it has been encouraged. For example, many officially declared saints reportedly prayed in tongues. There is a hint that St. Thomas Aquinas may have experienced this gift late in life and it so blew him away that he counted all the theologizing he'd done before as nothing.
In the time of Pope John Paul II, the gift of praying in tongues was tolerated. I definitiely would not say that the practice is encouraged by the hierarchy but it is a well-reported fact that people heard Pope John Paul join in singing in the Spirit during large charismatic gatherings. (The spin-doctors in the Vatican probably lost a lot of hair over that one.)
Some Seed Questions
There's a lot more that could be said about this gift. For example, how can you tell if someone truly has the ability or is faking it?
Is praying in tongues a necessary or sufficient condition for the baptism in the Spirit?
What can the gift of praying in tongues teach you about how the gift of faith works?
What are some of the objections to this gift? How might you respond to the objections?
If you DO pray in tongues, what's it like? Do you do this in private prayer? If so, HOW does this gift "build you up?"
If you can think of any more questions that you or others have had about this gift, feel free to set them forth.
I don't have all the answers. I doubt that any of us do. Maybe if we put all our questions and answers together we may see the Holy Spirit doing what He's really good at doing... teaching! |
_________________
.ed.
Last edited by EMKeefe on Jun 19, 2006 - 03:23 PM; edited 2 times in total
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Post subject:
Posted: Jun 07, 2004 - 12:12 PM
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Ed
I have posted a couple of observations on this topic in the "Baptism in the Spirit" thread. Please feel free to move my most recent post to this thread if that would make more sense.
Speaking of my own experience, it was similar to yours in that I intellectually assented to the whole "idea" that some people spoke in tongues, but was very much in two minds about whether this was "for me". I think I had heard some faulty teachings at one point, one of which said that the Holy Spirit gives certain charisms to certain people, and we just have to wait and see what we get. Another was that we had to ask for a specific gift and, like you, I was embarrassed by the whole idea of me speaking in tongues.
It wasn't until I realised that it is all about who is in control, that I submitted unconditionally to the Lordship of Jesus over my intellect. From then on, the Holy Spirit planted the desire in me to seek this gift, and I read more about it, understanding that I had to make a real sacrifice of giving up wanting to understand everything: it was a real step of faith, trusting the Lord to guide my voice if I gave Him permission, and just started to speak.
At first it was just one syllable, but I somehow "knew" that it was not just me, and I used it in faith, and was given more. Of course, I was tempted many times to think that I was just making it up, but with God's grace I was able to persist.
Over the years, I have found it to be a wonderfully powerful gift, both in my own life and in ministry. Two examples come to mind. In my early years after Baptism in the Spirit, I still had a problem with my temper on occasions, and I needed a lot of inner healing from emotional hurts. I found that if I prayed in tongues when provoked to temper, I would receive inner peace.
Second example. In our prayer group, we had "done" the Life in the Spirit seminars once, with experienced outsiders praying over us. Then we decided to do the seminars again, using tape recordings of the talks. When it came to praying over people, I didn't know what to pray so I prayed in tongues. With one man, a Word of Knowledge popped into my mind. I "interpreted" this as a prophetic word for him, and was astounded that it pinpointed the root of a particular problem he had been experiencing; and he was eventually given the grace to forgive and be reconciled with his family, and be healed of alcoholism.
When something like that happens, it is just so humbling and awesome. God's grace and all His gifts are given to us for the purpose of continuing the work of Jesus in establishing the Father's Kingdom on earth; but we need to co-operate with Him by unconditionally offering ourselves in His service. We cannot pick and chose gifts that we think we would like - we have to eagerly desire all the gifts, and step out in faith, and be willing to risk feeling foolish in the world's eyes. God's ways are not our ways (thankfully!)
God bless
Al |
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Post subject: Discernment of tongues...
Posted: Apr 22, 2005 - 06:39 AM
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Joined: Apr 20, 2005
Posts: 7
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Well...Ed did say this was an open topic, so here's my addition...nine months later!
Speaking in tongues is one of those gifts that I have a hard time with. Having dated a fundamentalist charismatic, I've witnessed people praying in tongues, but never within the context of scripture as I understand it.
Perhaps those of you that have received the gift of tongues can help me out by addressing the following questions:
1) How would you respond to Paul's admonishment in 1 Corinthians 14, to prophesy and not speak in tongues without interpretation? This also seems to clarify Bob's reference to Numbers and 1 Samuel, in which the wording is "prophesy" and not "tongues" (or synonymous).
2) Doesn't the example in Acts 2:4-12 describe the purpose for tongues? Seems a practical use of the gift when interpretation is possible.
3) I've heard counter-arguments that even without interpretation, unintelligible tongues may be speaking "the language of our souls", edifying us at a spiritual level. Any thoughts on this? Where might this be referenced in scripture or church writings?
4) Have any of you with this gift ever experienced it when you or someone else were not able to interpret the tongues? Is there anyone that ALWAYS is able to interpret, either personally or through someone else?
Respectfully,
Convert |
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Post subject:
Posted: Apr 22, 2005 - 10:53 AM
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Site Admin
Joined: Apr 07, 2003
Posts: 1489
Location: Mid -Iowa
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Hi, CA Convert,
Some people object to speaking/praying in tongues on the basis of 1 Cor 14. The objection typically goes,
Quote:
" Paul says that there should be two or three people around to interpret whenever one speaks in tongues. (1 COR 14:27). But, when you're alone, there's no one to interpret. Therefore, one should NOT speak in tongues when alone."
A partial response to the objection is to call attention to the next verse, 14:28 in which Paul says that if there is no one to interpret, the person who speaks in tongues in church should keep silent. The objectors almost always forget the words "in church" when they cite these verses.
In short, Paul is speaking about decorum in public worship. He is not legislating about praying.
If you turn to reputable Scripture scholars for a complete interpretation of 1 Cor 14, you'll see that most of them say that Paul was trying to establish guidelines for public worship in one congregation that had become competitive and unruly. What Paul was talking about was what we would call "prayer group etiquette". He was not adding more commandments to the list of ten, nor was he writing the first book of Rubrics.
Likewise, when Paul says it's better to prophesy than to speak in tongues, he's referring to church decorum wherein a message would be better understood when it's given in the language of the people. If someone gives a message in tongues and there's no one to translate, then it's just so much noise. It may mean something to the speaker, and to God, but it means nothing to the hearer. In short, pray that you will build up the prayer group and don't just "show off."
Paul, in chapter 14, admits that the person who speaks in tongues does speak to God. Elsewhere he says that he speaks in tongues (prays in tongues) more than anyone else, AND he prays with his mind.
In short, Paul is not legislating against praying in tongues in private.
Again, objectors, on other forums, say that the purpose of tongues is best shown in Acts 2 wherein the Apostles spoke KNOWN languages and the people who heard them understood what they were saying and 3000 people were converted in one day. The objection is made that speaking in an UNKNOWN language is not the purpose of tongues. The objectors usually say that the gift of tongues, today, is not the same as it was on Pentecost.
On the other hand, we have no idea how many people were there at the first Christian Pentecost. Apparently not everyone there understood what was being said. Some people said that what they heard was like the babbling of a bunch of drunks. If this is the case, then can we be sure that the gift of tongues is not exactly like it was on the first Christian Pentecost.
Besides, there are other instances, in the Acts of the Apostles, where people spoke in tongues either before they were baptized in water (e.g., Cornelius's household) and after they had hands laid on them to receive the Holy Spirit.
Quote:
Have any of you with this gift ever experienced it when you or someone else were not able to interpret the tongues? Is there anyone that ALWAYS is able to interpret, either personally or through someone else?
Personally, I try to pray "in the Spirit" at least 15 minutes a day. There's no one else around. I'm in my room with the door closed.
Sometimes I'll get a sense of what the words mean, most often not. Somtimes I'll get a word or phrase in my head. When I look up the word in my electronic Bible, I typically find that the word occurs ONLY in one of the Psalms. That's kinda neat.
More later, |
_________________
.ed.
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Post subject: Ooops...sorry for the Apologetics!
Posted: Apr 22, 2005 - 06:53 PM
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Joined: Apr 20, 2005
Posts: 7
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Ed,
Thanks for the insight. As someone new to the direct actions of the Spirit within myself, and naturally skeptical because of past experience, it's easier for me to accept what I read in the Bible. I read your comments in your post on the "testimonies" thread:
Quote:
As an aside, the Catholic Answers forum used to be a good site to discuss things Catholic and, sometimes, things charismatic. Lately, however, every thread having to do with charismatic topics has been invaded by a couple of nay-sayers who started flame-wars that generated more heat than light. The forum's owner, along with the Super moderator, declared a moratorium on anything charismatic . I think that such negativity is precisely why Bob has stressed that the CCC forum is NOT an apologetics forum, right Bob.
Sorry for the borderline apologetics!!! As a Confirmation teacher instructing highly skeptical and challenging teenagers, I like to reference scripture and Church doctrine wherever possible. Even then, some of the kids (like the rest of us  ) will never quite understand or appreciate the gifts of the Spirit without personally experiencing them.
I understood the context of Paul's admonishment regarding decorum, and was perhaps applying that instruction to all group situations (any Church, Mass, small community fellowship, prayer group, Confirmation class, etc.). Basically anytime there are two people praying or worshipping together. As I re-read through the comments in the thread, this seems to hold true for the experiences posted.
Ed stated:
Quote:
Personally, I try to pray "in the Spirit" at least 15 minutes a day. There's no one else around. I'm in my room with the door closed.
Al shared how he prayed in tongues, then interpreted:
Quote:
When it came to praying over people, I didn't know what to pray so I prayed in tongues. With one man, a Word of Knowledge popped into my mind. I "interpreted" this as a prophetic word for him, and was astounded that it pinpointed the root of a particular problem he had been experiencing
The only contradiction seems to be a reference to Pope John Paul "singing in the Spirit in large charismatic gatherings". I'm assuming that this is done in tongues? Is singing in tongues different than speaking or praying?
Anyway...I continue to remain impressed that all of the CCC members have approached the Spiritual gifts with a dose of skepticism, delved deeper as their gifts were revealed, and strive to remain within Church teachings. I believe that this will, as Bob stated elsewhere, help merge the CCR into the mainstream. God bless you all! |
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Post subject:
Posted: Apr 22, 2005 - 08:16 PM
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Site Admin
Joined: Apr 07, 2003
Posts: 1489
Location: Mid -Iowa
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| CA Convert asked
Quote:
...singing in the Spirit .... I'm assuming that this is done in tongues? Is singing in tongues different than speaking or praying?
Best way to describe it is to say that it's "praying in tongues with music." The melody and the tempo, etc. are just as spontaneous as the words. Others may have a more loose definition of "singing in the Spirit". This more narrow definition of "singing in the Spirit" is sometimes called a "word of praise". I associate this most often with charismatic conferences and "large" prayer meetings.
Enjoy, |
_________________
.ed.
Last edited by EMKeefe on Sep 28, 2008 - 06:22 AM; edited 2 times in total
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Post subject:
Posted: Oct 03, 2005 - 07:58 PM
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Joined: Sep 12, 2005
Posts: 380
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Hey,
I am really late to this post, however....
There is a definate difference in praying and speaking in tongues. That brings in a bit of confusion for some. When one speaks in tongues it is a definate prompting with very clear, distinct, and much louder expressions of speach. It is in that time that an interpreter is expected. From our experience the interpreter is already receiving the word as it is spoken in tongues. If I speak out in tongues, ususally one of four people in the prayer group will respond with the interpretation. These four seem to have the gift of interpreting. Then this word is usally either confirmed or has been confirmed at some point in the prayer meeting.
Sister Nancy made a wonderful observation this weekend. When we analize things we can become paralized by them instead of allowing God to move freely. She said the fruit of the Spirit is in the Tower of Bable, the tongues divided the people, and the tower fell. In our prayer tongues barriers between us are broken down and we are united.
She also said tongues is a language in which we never offend God. It is a tool of surrender to God, letting go of ourselves, and brings us to a point of quiet contemplation.
Pani Rose |
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Post subject:
Posted: Oct 03, 2005 - 08:14 PM
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Quote:
She said the fruit of the Spirit is in the Tower of Bable, the tongues divided the people, and the tower fell. In our prayer tongues barriers between us are broken down and we are united.
I stated that wrong - just in case it is not understood - praying in tonuges is not because of the Tower of Bable, it divided people causing distruction. It is that through the gift of tonuges, we see fruit - barriers between us are torn down and we become united in love and prayer. The first, the tower, is a case where people did not listen to God, did their own thing, refused to be obedient. The second, prayer in tongues is praise and worship of God in tongues, is one of the ways we are built up into that strong tower of God.
Pani Rose |
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Post subject:
Posted: Oct 08, 2005 - 12:02 PM
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Joined: Oct 08, 2005
Posts: 4
Location: AZ.
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The difference I see between singing in tongues and speaking or praying in tongues is that you are using your prayer language to sing.
Generally I have found especially in large groups that singing in tongues is a form of praise and worship which gradually builds until there is this wonderful harmonious sound rising up in praise to God sort of a heavenly choir sound. (at least to me anyway) 
Miriam |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 29, 2005 - 05:25 AM
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Joined: Nov 29, 2005
Posts: 2
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so, does tongues involve known human languages or unkown languages?
i received tongues relatively recently, and i'm pretty sure im not praying in a known language. i read acts, and the apostles were clearly praying in known languages. does this mean i am a fraud? |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 29, 2005 - 07:19 AM
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Site Admin
Joined: Apr 07, 2003
Posts: 1489
Location: Mid -Iowa
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Hi, Samkin,
Thanks for posting on the forum and for registering. Hope that your visits to the forum prove to be helpful.
Quote:
does tongues involve known human languages or unkown languages?
The answer would have to be both. Most frequently, the tongue is unknown to people within hearing distance. Occasionally, the tongue is recognized as a known human language.
According to the Web site that deals with language research, there are over 7000 languages in use today. Over the past millennia, there have probably been more than 50,000 languages. What may sound like gibberish could actually be something like an early form of the Turkish language. Who knows.
Quote:
read acts, and the apostles were clearly praying in known languages.
In Acts 2, it does seem that the apostles were telling of the wonders of God in all the languages of the known world at the time. In Acts 10:46-47, Cornelius's family and servants all spoke in tongues. There's no indication that these were known languages.
If you asked the Lord to be baptized in His Spirit and you received the gift of tongues as one of the charisms, then you can be sure that you got what you asked for. You stepped out in faith, believing in the promise of the Lord. That's what's really important.
Quote:
does this mean i am a fraud?
No: furthermore, if you can ask that question, I'd say that you are someone who definitely has the gift of tongues and who is currently being tempted to stop using the gift. Just keep on praying in tongues. Realize, also, that the gift is the gift of tongue(s). Expect to hear yourself pray in more than one language depending on your level of faith and maturity in the Spirit.
Peace, |
_________________
.ed.
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Post subject:
Posted: Dec 20, 2005 - 05:48 PM
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Joined: Dec 14, 2005
Posts: 4
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The Holy Spirit uses the gift of tongues, with my wife and I, in a somewhat different way then from what I have read others witnesses.
My wife or I will have a question for God, we will get a tongue and the other person will have an interpretation, which will be the answer to the tongue. My wife has a much better developed gift of interpretation than I do.
I also was told by Jesus to pray to be sensitive and open to His touch and word all day long, and to let His Holy Spirit to be with me to give me words of praise. I believe the words of praise are the tongue in which I pray during the day. |
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Post subject:
Posted: Dec 21, 2005 - 12:50 AM
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Joined: Dec 16, 2005
Posts: 26
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I haven thad a lot of experience with singing in my prayer language, I guess I just need to practice it. My freind in New York she has sang in tongues with me on a few occasions, and a few of the people in my prayer group here do that also, I am not sure if there is anything more beneficial to singing as opposed to praying in tongues, both are still kinda the same thing I guess it all depends on how the Spirit prompts you to speak when you open your mouth I dunno? Maybe some of you more exp guys could clarify that for me.
I do know that in the beggining when I first received the baptism of the spirit, I had the evidence of tongues!! it was funny!....I remember shortly after the exp......my freind and I ( who had also asked in prayer the same time as me, and the Spirit fell on him as well) we would be trying to talk, and I remember feeling as if I was in a daze and I kept saying Yahweh Yahweh over and over....and then something odd happened. I would try to talk, and this babble would kinda hit me! , and I remember putting my hand over my mouth thinking :what was that!? Its funny know thinking back on it, it was literally one, if not THE greatest day in my life up to this point, thats the best way I can describe it in the short of it! Since then my friend unfortunately has become backslidden and needs lots of prayers and encouragement, weird eh, I went one way and he went the other, I dont understand that one, I think it kind of scared him. Fear I think is the biggest inhibitor keeping people from receiving the Holy Spirit, or having a "stirring" as I guess some would call it. Well anyways since then I have opened my mouth and "cooperated" with the Spirit, and he has allowed my tongues to develop in what I think is a beautiful and fluid prayer lang. recently a freind of mine who attends a non-denominational church heard me pray in tongues breifly and he seemed kinda moved by it. He said in his opinion it reminded him of arabic...I thought that was interesting!
Praise God Always!! and Peace Out!!!
Eric |
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Post subject:
Posted: Apr 03, 2006 - 11:11 PM
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Joined: Mar 27, 2006
Posts: 6
Location: Trinidad & Tobago
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I believe that the important point is to not stop praying/singing in tongues. Sometimes it's just an unintelligible word/words if you are new to it. Even if you have been using it for a while, your vocabulary certainly develops. Keep trusting in the Holy Spirit to guide you and teach you the paths of the Lord. The more you surrender to the will of the Lord, the more you are likely to develop. Also, ask the Spirit to give you the gift of interpretation of tongues. You will know when it happens. How? You'll just know, also you may get confirmations from others when this happens  |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jun 13, 2006 - 05:19 PM
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this past week -in I attended the CCC at Franciscan University of Steubenville , Ohio. it was the first i had attended after 12 years of "being in the desert". ( another story , another time)
during a workshop session on " Baptism of the Holy Spirit" , we were led into Praise , I found that I had been given a" New Tongue of Praise "  . It was different from the one I had experienced before i left my Prayer group in 1984. any insight would be welcomed,  thanks |
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